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candy from a baby...

Sam the Bam
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Nov 14, 2008, 12:30 AM

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candy from a baby...	Can't Post

I'm off to Las Vegas Saturday, to drop $20 grand on Brock Lesnar
over the Geritol guy... it's almost even money, which boggles my mind.

Haven't we seen this scenario umpteen times? Old boxer can't
hang up the gloves, out for one last hurrah against the young
lion, gonna whup that cub a good lesson, yessiree...

Ali vs. Holmes, Holmes vs. Tyson, the list is long.... though
perhaps a better comparison is Frazier vs. Foreman, 1972.
Frazier the champ, savvy, tough, confident; Foreman young,
massive, hungry, fit... Lesnar - Couture: deja vu. Granted,
Randy is in much better condition than those other cases
(still not fitter than Frazier), but it's still a pipe dream.

Lesnar is younger. stronger, bigger, faster... and Couture is
giving away 15 YEARS!!! But wait... what about the 'experience'
angle? That's crucial, sho nuf... I mean, look how Herring
schooled Lesnar... insanity is doing the same thing over and
over, expecting different results...

How is Methuselah going to win this... standing? He might land
a lucky shot, but those are narrow time windows, Hulk can force
it to the floor any time.

From top? Does anyone see Hulk on his back?

Take his back? Maybe, but that's a big back, and a thick neck.

Endurance? Indeed, size is a detriment in a long fight, but
Methuselah has to survive 5 rounds, and Hulk was a champion
wrestler, he knows a bit about training.

Sub? Not Geritol's forte, and anyway no one will catch Hulk
with a trick. Losing to Mir was probably for the best, a wake
up call, now Brock trains daily with jujutsu players, he won't
get caught again.

All winning scenarios for Methuselah are freakish, that's
never smart money... like the L.A. Clippers could win the
NBA west, but it's not the smart money...

I do feel a bit guilty, snatching lollipops form a child's hand.

And in 4 months, we'll witness a test of character, watching
Fedor taste defeat...

Sam

Mike
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mikejc563@yahoo.com

Nov 14, 2008, 8:26 AM

Post #2 of 18 (11 views)
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Re: candy from a baby... [In reply to]	Can't Post

5016
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huwgareth@my-deja.com

Nov 14, 2008, 9:24 AM

Post #3 of 18 (11 views)
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Re: candy from a baby... [In reply to]	Can't Post

On Nov 14, 12:30=A0am, Sam the Bam <samtheb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm off to Las Vegas Saturday, to drop $20 grand on Brock Lesnar
> over the Geritol guy... it's almost even money, which boggles my mind.
>
> Haven't we seen this scenario umpteen times? =A0Old boxer can't
> hang up the gloves, out for one last hurrah against the young
> lion, gonna whup that cub a good lesson, yessiree...
>
> Ali vs. Holmes, Holmes vs. Tyson, the list is long.... though
> perhaps a better comparison is Frazier vs. Foreman, 1972.
> Frazier the champ, savvy, tough, confident; Foreman young,
> massive, hungry, fit... =A0Lesnar - Couture: deja vu. =A0Granted,
> Randy is in much better condition than those other cases
> (still not fitter than Frazier), but it's still a pipe dream.
>
> Lesnar is younger. stronger, bigger, faster... and Couture is
> giving away 15 YEARS!!! =A0But wait... what about the 'experience'
> angle? =A0That's crucial, sho nuf... I mean, look how Herring
> schooled Lesnar... insanity is doing the same thing over and
> over, expecting different results...
>
> How is Methuselah going to win this... standing? =A0He might land
> a lucky shot, but those are narrow time windows, Hulk can force
> it to the floor any time.
>
> From top? =A0Does anyone see Hulk on his back?
>
> Take his back? =A0Maybe, but that's a big back, and a thick neck.
>
> Endurance? =A0Indeed, size is a detriment in a long fight, but
> Methuselah has to survive 5 rounds, and Hulk was a champion
> wrestler, he knows a bit about training.
>
> Sub? =A0Not Geritol's forte, and anyway no one will catch Hulk
> with a trick. =A0Losing to Mir was probably for the best, a wake
> up call, now Brock trains daily with jujutsu players, he won't
> get caught again.
>
> All winning scenarios for Methuselah are freakish, that's
> never smart money... like the L.A. Clippers could win the
> NBA west, but it's not the smart money...
>
> I do feel a bit guilty, snatching lollipops form a child's hand.
>
> And in 4 months, we'll witness a test of character, watching
> Fedor taste defeat...
>
> Sam

An analysis of the fighters strengths and weaknesses definitely seems
to favor Brock - it is , as you say, hard to imagine the way in which
Couture can win. However, I don't think that things are as simple as
that.

A key to assessing Coutures chances here is the fact that Lesnar has
not shown any real finishing skills to speak of. Herring (a fine
fighter but a notch below Couture) lasted all 3 rounds even though he
lost every minute of each. Therefore, short of dramatic decline by
Couture, or new strings to Lesnar's bow, we are left with the
likelihood that Lesnat will be unable to put Couture away quickly.

If that is case, then there will be a lot of time for the unexpected
to happen. Fighters who finish people quickly leave little to chance;
fighters who go the distance are exposed to risk. If Couture is still
standing in the third round, even if he has taken a beating up to that
point, then Lesnar may well become susceptible to Couture's standup.
Stamina may make him susceptible to Couture's submissions as well -
I'm sure that Couture is as aware as everyone else that he won't be
able to outwrestle Lesnar, and that he's worked subs from his backs in
training for this more than for any other fight.

Fundamentally, Lesnar has demonstrated little so far apart from the
fact that he's excellent at taking people down, that he's not good at
finishing people, and that he can get caught in subs. We don't know
anything about his chin or how well he will last into the 4th and 5th
rounds. There are just too many unknowns about Lesnar, and when you
add his lack of finishing skills, there will be too much time for
these unknowns to be working. As a result, I think that the odds
quoted of evens fairly reflect the underlying value of this fight; and
it is a fight that I would not bet either way.

ashen
Webmaster
bryen193@aol.com

Nov 14, 2008, 10:24 AM

Post #4 of 18 (11 views)
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Re: candy from a baby... [In reply to]	Can't Post

On Nov 14, 9:24=A0am, 5016 <huwgar...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> If that is case, then there will be a lot of time for the unexpected
> to happen. Fighters who finish people quickly leave little to chance;
> fighters who go the distance are exposed to risk. If Couture is still
> standing in the third round, even if he has taken a beating up to that
> point, then Lesnar may well become susceptible to Couture's standup.
> Stamina may make him susceptible to Couture's submissions as well -
> I'm sure that Couture is as aware as everyone else that he won't be
> able to outwrestle Lesnar, and that he's worked subs from his backs in
> training for this more than for any other fight.

Yesterday I watched Couture/Randleman to try to get some insight as to
what to expect from this fight. In the first round Randleman was able
to take Couture down with ease and hold him down but not do much
damage. Couture, however, came very close to surprise subbing
Randleman from his back with an armbar. There's a possibilty that
could happen to Lesnar if he gets Couture down and is unable to finish
or cause significant damage.

Second, Couture's standup striking now is way better than it was back
then when the wide roundhouse punching Randleman was out slugging a
Couture who had virtually nothing to offer back, Over the years,
Randy's standup game has improved to the point that he can now
dominate a striker like Tim Sylvia on the feet, and give a competitive
accounting of himself standing versus an accomplished kick boxer like
Chuck Liddell. Lesnar has yet to be hit on the jaw. He'd would be
wise not to stand and exchange with Couture.

Third - the conditioning. By the third round, Randleman faded
significantly and it was Couture who was able to get the trip
takedown, top position and ground and pound finish. If Couture gets
top position on Lesnar in the first round, he most likely won't be
able to accomplish much or hold Lesnar down for long. If he gets
there in the 3rd or 4th round, he might be able to finish Lesnar.

Bill Ricardi
Webmaster
billricardi@googlemail.com

Nov 14, 2008, 12:48 PM

Post #5 of 18 (11 views)
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Re: candy from a baby... [In reply to]	Can't Post

On Nov 14, 5:30=A0am, Sam the Bam <samtheb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm off to Las Vegas Saturday, to drop $20 grand on Brock Lesnar
> over the Geritol guy... it's almost even money, which boggles my mind.

Even money is about right. If you want to coinflip 20K, that's your
call.

> Haven't we seen this scenario umpteen times?

No, we haven't seen this a lot in MMA. Most MMA stars experience a
slow and painful decline into oblivion. Rather than regaining the
title and defending it all over again.

> Lesnar is younger. stronger, bigger, faster... and Couture is
> giving away 15 YEARS!!! =A0But wait... what about the 'experience'
> angle? =A0That's crucial, sho nuf... I mean, look how Herring
> schooled Lesnar... insanity is doing the same thing over and
> over, expecting different results...

Herring also lost to Sam Greco and Jake O'Brien in recent years. To
put him in the same league as Randy is laughable.

> How is Methuselah going to win this... standing?

Probably not.

> From top? =A0Does anyone see Hulk on his back?

This is how he beat the last wrestler he faced. Van Arsdale got caught
in a front clinch in round 1, but got away. Randy did it again round
2, but he got away again. Finally, in round 3 Randy gator rolled him
to a modified North South (didn't get all the way under because of the
cage), and Mike was choked out in a very adept Anaconda. Of course,
Arsdale is older himself, and not as quick as he used to be. But it
destroyed his confidence and his career. He lost his next three bouts
and quit.

> Take his back? =A0Maybe, but that's a big back, and a thick neck.

If he takes the back, he's going to pound the head, not go for a RNC.
Couture hasn't RNC's since his first fight at UFC 13. :P When he took
the huge Tim Sylvia's back, he controlled, he punished, but he didn't
waste energy.

> Endurance? =A0Indeed, size is a detriment in a long fight, but
> Methuselah has to survive 5 rounds, and Hulk was a champion
> wrestler, he knows a bit about training.

I've never seen a more vague answer to this question. Truth is, we
have no idea if Brock's conditioning is that good. We've seen Randy do
multiple 5 round matches in the last few years. Brock's done 2 first
round bouts (losing one) and 1 3 round bout.

> Sub? =A0Not Geritol's forte, and anyway no one will catch Hulk
> with a trick. =A0Losing to Mir was probably for the best, a wake
> up call, now Brock trains daily with jujutsu players, he won't
> get caught again.

Whaaaaaat? Nobody will catch him with a trick, why exactly? He's been
training for such a short period of time, he not only could be caught
with a 'trick', it's the most likely way for him to lose.

All in all, this is very much an even-odds fight. The most likely win
is the same win that Randy did against the larger Sylvia: Outclass him
standing up, outlast him, grind out a 5 rounder.

You might win 20K. But. Could go either way. It really is a coinflip.

JG
Webmaster
HeckaGuy@yahoo.com

Nov 14, 2008, 5:06 PM

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Re: candy from a baby... [In reply to]	Can't Post

On Nov 14, 12:48=A0pm, Bill Ricardi <billrica...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> All in all, this is very much an even-odds fight. The most likely win
> is the same win that Randy did against the larger Sylvia: Outclass him
> standing up, outlast him, grind out a 5 rounder.

While I agree with most of your post, this fight will be nothing like
the Couture/Sylvia fight. Lesnar and Sylvia are two very different
fighters, with two very different styles, and Randy will have to
adjust for that.

By the way, if it weren't for the Lesnar unknowns (his chin/striking
are open questions, as is his ability to handle adversity), I would
have Brock as a fairly solid favorite in this fight. But while the
unknowns are important, you can't take them too far. His chin, for
example: We don't know how well he can take a punch, but you can't
translate that to mean 'he can't take a punch'. For all we know, he
could have the ability to absord tremendous punishment...or no
punishment at all.

Also, even if we knew Brock had a relatively weak chin, it isn't
necessarily a huge liability in *this* fight. Randy's never been a big
hitter, and never been a prolific striker, so a weak chin is much more
apt to hold up than if Lesnar was fighting a top-tier striker.

Along these same lines, Brock's inexperience in Jiu-Jitsu isn't likely
to be a big liability in this fight (since BJJ has never been Randy's
specialty), but it would be a very big liability if he were fighting
Nog. Everything comes back to styles, and everything is relative.

I can't wait for this fight!

JG

ufc@invalid.net
Webmaster
ufc@invalid.net

Nov 14, 2008, 10:57 PM

Post #7 of 18 (8 views)
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Re: candy from a baby... [In reply to]	Can't Post

On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 21:30:38 -0800 (PST),
in article
<f77fa078-99f2-4a5f-ba6e-ed26807ca4e5@b38g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
Sam the Bam <samthebam1@gmail.com> wrote:

>I'm off to Las Vegas Saturday, to drop $20 grand on Brock Lesnar
>over the Geritol guy... it's almost even money, which boggles my mind.
>
>Haven't we seen this scenario umpteen times? Old boxer can't
>hang up the gloves, out for one last hurrah against the young
>lion, gonna whup that cub a good lesson, yessiree...
>
>Ali vs. Holmes, Holmes vs. Tyson, the list is long.... though
>perhaps a better comparison is Frazier vs. Foreman, 1972.
>Frazier the champ, savvy, tough, confident; Foreman young,
>massive, hungry, fit... Lesnar - Couture: deja vu. Granted,
>Randy is in much better condition than those other cases
>(still not fitter than Frazier), but it's still a pipe dream.
>
>Lesnar is younger. stronger, bigger, faster... and Couture is
>giving away 15 YEARS!!! But wait... what about the 'experience'
>angle? That's crucial, sho nuf... I mean, look how Herring
>schooled Lesnar... insanity is doing the same thing over and
>over, expecting different results...
>
>How is Methuselah going to win this... standing? He might land
>a lucky shot, but those are narrow time windows, Hulk can force
>it to the floor any time.
>
>From top? Does anyone see Hulk on his back?
>
>Take his back? Maybe, but that's a big back, and a thick neck.
>
>Endurance? Indeed, size is a detriment in a long fight, but
>Methuselah has to survive 5 rounds, and Hulk was a champion
>wrestler, he knows a bit about training.
>
>Sub? Not Geritol's forte, and anyway no one will catch Hulk
>with a trick. Losing to Mir was probably for the best, a wake
>up call, now Brock trains daily with jujutsu players, he won't
>get caught again.
>
>All winning scenarios for Methuselah are freakish, that's
>never smart money... like the L.A. Clippers could win the
>NBA west, but it's not the smart money...
>
>I do feel a bit guilty, snatching lollipops form a child's hand.
>
>And in 4 months, we'll witness a test of character, watching
>Fedor taste defeat...
>
>
>
>Sam

Yeah, you're just oozing with confidence.

SPORTfighter
Webmaster
billamahoney@yahoo.com

Nov 14, 2008, 11:59 PM

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Re: candy from a baby... [In reply to]	Can't Post

On Nov 14, 8:26=A0am, Mike <mikejc...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Nov 14, 12:30=A0am, Sam the Bam <samtheb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > I'm off to Las Vegas Saturday, to drop $20 grand on Brock Lesnar
> > over the Geritol guy... it's almost even money, which boggles my mind.
>
> > Haven't we seen this scenario umpteen times? =A0Old boxer can't
> > hang up the gloves, out for one last hurrah against the young
> > lion, gonna whup that cub a good lesson, yessiree...
>
> > Ali vs. Holmes, Holmes vs. Tyson, the list is long.... though
> > perhaps a better comparison is Frazier vs. Foreman, 1972.
> > Frazier the champ, savvy, tough, confident; Foreman young,
> > massive, hungry, fit... =A0Lesnar - Couture: deja vu. =A0Granted,
> > Randy is in much better condition than those other cases
> > (still not fitter than Frazier), but it's still a pipe dream.
>
> > Lesnar is younger. stronger, bigger, faster... and Couture is
> > giving away 15 YEARS!!! =A0But wait... what about the 'experience'
> > angle? =A0That's crucial, sho nuf... I mean, look how Herring
> > schooled Lesnar... insanity is doing the same thing over and
> > over, expecting different results...
>
> > How is Methuselah going to win this... standing? =A0He might land
> > a lucky shot, but those are narrow time windows, Hulk can force
> > it to the floor any time.
>
> > From top? =A0Does anyone see Hulk on his back?
>
> > Take his back? =A0Maybe, but that's a big back, and a thick neck.
>
> > Endurance? =A0Indeed, size is a detriment in a long fight, but
> > Methuselah has to survive 5 rounds, and Hulk was a champion
> > wrestler, he knows a bit about training.
>
> > Sub? =A0Not Geritol's forte, and anyway no one will catch Hulk
> > with a trick. =A0Losing to Mir was probably for the best, a wake
> > up call, now Brock trains daily with jujutsu players, he won't
> > get caught again.
>
> > All winning scenarios for Methuselah are freakish, that's
> > never smart money... like the L.A. Clippers could win the
> > NBA west, but it's not the smart money...
>
> > I do feel a bit guilty, snatching lollipops form a child's hand.
>
> > And in 4 months, we'll witness a test of character, watching
> > Fedor taste defeat...
>
> > Sam
>
> Nevermind about Fedor. =A0Gichoke is building the perfect beast inside
> his genetics lab within a volcano off the South American coast.

Already done, i got a teenager that faced a guy 2-0 in the ufc at a
higher weight and my kid choked him unconcious in the 1st.
And there will be more where that came from.

SPORTfighter
Webmaster
billamahoney@yahoo.com

Nov 15, 2008, 12:23 AM

Post #9 of 18 (8 views)
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Re: candy from a baby... [In reply to]	Can't Post

On Nov 14, 12:30=A0am, Sam the Bam <samtheb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm off to Las Vegas Saturday, to drop $20 grand on Brock Lesnar
> Haven't we seen this scenario umpteen times? =A0Old boxer can't
> hang up the gloves, out for one last hurrah against the young
> lion, gonna whup that cub a good lesson, yessiree...
>
> Ali vs. Holmes, Holmes vs. Tyson, the list is long.... though
> perhaps a better comparison is Frazier vs. Foreman, 1972.

one more example comes to mind...couture vs sylvia

> Lesnar is younger. stronger, bigger, faster... and Couture is
> giving away 15 YEARS!!! =A0But wait... what about the 'experience'
> angle? =A0That's crucial, sho nuf... I mean, look how Herring
> schooled Lesnar... insanity is doing the same thing over and
> over, expecting different results...

randy has more skills in kickboxing, submission and even wrestling.
but yeah he probably cant win, hes too small to beat the top
superheavies.
always was.
got beat bad by barnett, then ricco, ok he beat tim which was
impressive.
but who are tims big wins over...arlovski, yeah impressive, but he
lost to him too.
gan magee? tre telligman? jeff monson? none were ever top 10.
Tim just got humiliated by fedor, which says something about the few
years of debating the ufc vs pride in superheavy.
mino beat tim too.
id guess randy loses, but wouldnt bet much.just havent seen enough
lesner.
unreal though he seems, and the win over heath is huge, but it's his
one win over a real fighter.and heath has what 15 losses? and many by
sub or tko.
lesner dominated, but to decision.and brock hasent been hit yet.
he can maybe get randy down fast and crush him, randy cant use guard,
though his is ok, lesners way to big.
and lesner is way more powerful standing.
but getting hit by even a not hugh puncher like randy with those
gloves hard in the face the first time is a real eye opener.and brocks
not been hit yet.I know hes wrestler tough, but its different tough
than striker tough.And ive seen even boxers like sakara get hit with
mma gloves like he was vs mcfredries and get a look like "shit that
hurt, i think I'll lay down and pretend to be koed".
Also heath had no idea brock would punch, and punch ugly, but crazy
hard.He got flash koed and never got his head together.
I say brock probably winms fast, if he doesnt he probably lose.if
randy gets top once and secures it it is probably over.

> How is Methuselah going to win this... standing? =A0He might land
> a lucky shot, but those are narrow time windows, Hulk can force
> it to the floor any time.

As I said lots of guys crumble eternally.
When i was fighting and basically a grappler i got hit hard in the
cage and you think "holy shit, im not in pain, must be the adrenaline,
but fuck that seemd crazy hard, like brass knuckles...i wonder why i
feel so wet...oh shit its blood....im not sure, but maybe im hurt
bad...maybe this is what boxers feel like when they get knocked out, i
wonder if im supposed to lay down" all that flashed thru my head and
right then the ref stopped the fight from excessive bleeding from a
broken nose and orbital bone.Somehow from one punch.Comp MMA gloves
over a wrapped hand thrown by a pro fighter feels ALOT more shocking
than a pro boxer in boxing gloves, or a streetfighter idiot bare
knuckle.Even a guy like brock could crumble.There hasnt been a guy
less experienced in striking ...or fighting... in the ufc in many
years.hard to say whatll happen.Amd id hate to have 20 K on it either
way.
i just hope if brock wins people dont assume hes the man.He;ll be 3-1,
having beaten a 45 year old off a long layoff whos real division is
205.
He;ll still hafta beat mino after he creams mir.
And brock may win, its a completely different fight, hard to say, but
id guess mino wins...or he dies...but ignoring the GNP as he spins for
subs.
If he beats both randy and mino itll be a new day.
The guys like them and fedor...the 230ish guys will realise they gotta
cut to 220 and dehydrate to 205.
Sooner or later a guy like brock, not just a huge guy, but a huge
elite athlete will change the sport that way.lets hope it aint sooner.

> From top? =A0Does anyone see Hulk on his back?

Seems hard to do.But I think Randy may have wrestled a bit prior to
MMA training.

> Take his back? =A0Maybe, but that's a big back, and a thick neck.

Yeah, dont see anyone under 6'5' being able to even get his hooks deep
enough around lesners torso to be able to get hooks...let alone break
him down.And if you cant even do that, getting around the traps to RMC
will be tricky.
And it'd maybe take a 6'8" guy to keep lesner from smashing him when
he postures in guard.
> Endurance? =A0Indeed, size is a detriment in a long fight, but
> Methuselah has to survive 5 rounds, and Hulk was a champion
> wrestler, he knows a bit about training.

i recall seeing brock standing there smiling after beating herring.It
was a one sided fight and only 3 rounds, but a guy whos benched 225
40times in a row even if hes a wrestler....i expected him to look a
bit tired.Nope.He wasnt even mouth breathing.scary.

> Sub? =A0Not Geritol's forte, and anyway no one will catch Hulk
> with a trick. =A0Losing to Mir was probably for the best, a wake
> up call, now Brock trains daily with jujutsu players, he won't
> get caught again.

Not by randy cept maybe a choke.But just cause he wont get caught by
randy, dont count mino out.He subbed sapp who dwarfs brock.

> And in 4 months, we'll witness a test of character, watching
> Fedor taste defeat...

Fedor is 10 times the fighter randy ever was.Ask Tim Sylvia.

"travisgod@aol.cominyrface"
Webmaster
travisgod@aol.com

Nov 15, 2008, 1:26 AM

Post #10 of 18 (8 views)
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Re: candy from a baby... [In reply to]	Can't Post

> This is how he beat the last wrestler he faced. Van Arsdale got caught
> in a front clinch in round 1, but got away. Randy did it again round
> 2, but he got away again. Finally, in round 3 Randy gator rolled him
> to a modified North South (didn't get all the way under because of the
> cage), and Mike was choked out in a very adept Anaconda. Of course,
> Arsdale is older himself, and not as quick as he used to be. But it
> destroyed his confidence and his career. He lost his next three bouts
> and quit.

C'mon, you're comparing Van Arsdale to Lesnar?

Lesnar is younger, faster, far larger and more powerful.

This fight comes down to matchups. Couture is the better pure
wrestler, but he is outweighed massively. When in WWF, apparently
Lesnar and Kurt Angle wrestled each other in a freestyle pickup and
Angle schooled him easily, but Angle listed at 240 juiced and was an
Olympic champion in that style and was not pushing 45.

Couture is not going to be taking Lesnar down because he won't be able
to press him to the cage to gain leverage. Lesnar cuts to make 265,
he's going to come in pushing 300 for this fight against a guy who
legitimately is a 205er. Also, Couture was a greco champ which is an
upper body only wrestling style...he simply doesn't have the freestyle
or collegiate chops to dominate Lesnar the way a Kurt Angle could.
Greco is great for the clinch game but it's not great for launching
shots from outside punching range and doing double legs. The clinch
game is easiest when you outweigh or outpower your opponent...neither
of these factors is in Couture's favor.

Sylvia was injured for his Couture fight and Couture did not have to
fear Sylvia's takedown at all...no respect. He could launch in at
will without having to contend with being put onto his back. That
advantage isn't present in this fight. Lesnar has a reach advantage
as well as more power. I don't see a clear place where Couture has a
measurable advantage unless we are going to consider his weakest
phase, his guard, as an advantage over Lesnar's top game.

The bottom line here is that if Lesnar wasn't thrown into the main
event so quickly and he'd had a legitimate amount of experience, he'd
have knocked Mir out too. After that punch he landed, he could have
finished that fight were he an experienced MMA guy...that would have
been 2 straight knockouts.

Maybe Couture can force a standup fight and Lesnar wants to knock him
out and Couture can hit him and win a JD. But if the standup phase
isn't going Brock's way, you have to figure he's going to shoot and
that comes down to conditioning, speed, and strength, all in his
favor.

Trav

Anthony Williams
Webmaster
TruthSeeker@swbell.net

Nov 15, 2008, 1:36 AM

Post #11 of 18 (8 views)
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Re: candy from a baby... [In reply to]	Can't Post

travisgod@aol.cominyrface wrote:
>> This is how he beat the last wrestler he faced. Van Arsdale got caught
>> in a front clinch in round 1, but got away. Randy did it again round
>> 2, but he got away again. Finally, in round 3 Randy gator rolled him
>> to a modified North South (didn't get all the way under because of the
>> cage), and Mike was choked out in a very adept Anaconda. Of course,
>> Arsdale is older himself, and not as quick as he used to be. But it
>> destroyed his confidence and his career. He lost his next three bouts
>> and quit.
>
> C'mon, you're comparing Van Arsdale to Lesnar?
>
> Lesnar is younger, faster, far larger and more powerful.
>
> This fight comes down to matchups. Couture is the better pure
> wrestler, but he is outweighed massively. When in WWF, apparently
> Lesnar and Kurt Angle wrestled each other in a freestyle pickup and
> Angle schooled him easily, but Angle listed at 240 juiced and was an
> Olympic champion in that style and was not pushing 45.
>
> Couture is not going to be taking Lesnar down because he won't be able
> to press him to the cage to gain leverage. Lesnar cuts to make 265,
> he's going to come in pushing 300 for this fight against a guy who
> legitimately is a 205er. Also, Couture was a greco champ which is an
> upper body only wrestling style...he simply doesn't have the freestyle
> or collegiate chops to dominate Lesnar the way a Kurt Angle could.
> Greco is great for the clinch game but it's not great for launching
> shots from outside punching range and doing double legs. The clinch
> game is easiest when you outweigh or outpower your opponent...neither
> of these factors is in Couture's favor.
>
> Sylvia was injured for his Couture fight and Couture did not have to
> fear Sylvia's takedown at all...no respect. He could launch in at
> will without having to contend with being put onto his back. That
> advantage isn't present in this fight. Lesnar has a reach advantage
> as well as more power. I don't see a clear place where Couture has a
> measurable advantage unless we are going to consider his weakest
> phase, his guard, as an advantage over Lesnar's top game.
>
> The bottom line here is that if Lesnar wasn't thrown into the main
> event so quickly and he'd had a legitimate amount of experience, he'd
> have knocked Mir out too. After that punch he landed, he could have
> finished that fight were he an experienced MMA guy...that would have
> been 2 straight knockouts.
>
> Maybe Couture can force a standup fight and Lesnar wants to knock him
> out and Couture can hit him and win a JD. But if the standup phase
> isn't going Brock's way, you have to figure he's going to shoot and
> that comes down to conditioning, speed, and strength, all in his
> favor.
>
> Trav

Yeah that's about the way I see it too. That and Dana is a dick.

--
Luke 14:26 "If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother,
and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life
also, he cannot be my disciple." JESUS CHRIST

"rollman"
Webmaster
rollinsh@hotmail.com

Nov 15, 2008, 5:16 AM

Post #12 of 18 (8 views)
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Re: candy from a baby... [In reply to]	Can't Post

"Anthony Williams" <TruthSeeker@swbell.net> wrote in message
news:P5uTk.5021$hc1.342@flpi150.ffdc.sbc.com...
> travisgod@aol.cominyrface wrote:
>>> This is how he beat the last wrestler he faced. Van Arsdale got caught
>>> in a front clinch in round 1, but got away. Randy did it again round
>>> 2, but he got away again. Finally, in round 3 Randy gator rolled him
>>> to a modified North South (didn't get all the way under because of the
>>> cage), and Mike was choked out in a very adept Anaconda. Of course,
>>> Arsdale is older himself, and not as quick as he used to be. But it
>>> destroyed his confidence and his career. He lost his next three bouts
>>> and quit.
>>
>> C'mon, you're comparing Van Arsdale to Lesnar?
>>
>> Lesnar is younger, faster, far larger and more powerful.
>>
>> This fight comes down to matchups. Couture is the better pure
>> wrestler, but he is outweighed massively. When in WWF, apparently
>> Lesnar and Kurt Angle wrestled each other in a freestyle pickup and
>> Angle schooled him easily, but Angle listed at 240 juiced and was an
>> Olympic champion in that style and was not pushing 45.
>>
>> Couture is not going to be taking Lesnar down because he won't be able
>> to press him to the cage to gain leverage. Lesnar cuts to make 265,
>> he's going to come in pushing 300 for this fight against a guy who
>> legitimately is a 205er. Also, Couture was a greco champ which is an
>> upper body only wrestling style...he simply doesn't have the freestyle
>> or collegiate chops to dominate Lesnar the way a Kurt Angle could.
>> Greco is great for the clinch game but it's not great for launching
>> shots from outside punching range and doing double legs. The clinch
>> game is easiest when you outweigh or outpower your opponent...neither
>> of these factors is in Couture's favor.
>>
>> Sylvia was injured for his Couture fight and Couture did not have to
>> fear Sylvia's takedown at all...no respect. He could launch in at
>> will without having to contend with being put onto his back. That
>> advantage isn't present in this fight. Lesnar has a reach advantage
>> as well as more power. I don't see a clear place where Couture has a
>> measurable advantage unless we are going to consider his weakest
>> phase, his guard, as an advantage over Lesnar's top game.
>>
>> The bottom line here is that if Lesnar wasn't thrown into the main
>> event so quickly and he'd had a legitimate amount of experience, he'd
>> have knocked Mir out too. After that punch he landed, he could have
>> finished that fight were he an experienced MMA guy...that would have
>> been 2 straight knockouts.
>>
>> Maybe Couture can force a standup fight and Lesnar wants to knock him
>> out and Couture can hit him and win a JD. But if the standup phase
>> isn't going Brock's way, you have to figure he's going to shoot and
>> that comes down to conditioning, speed, and strength, all in his
>> favor.
>>
>> Trav
>
> Yeah that's about the way I see it too. That and Dana is a dick.

both above points are how I see it

ufc@invalid.net
Webmaster
ufc@invalid.net

Nov 15, 2008, 5:36 AM

Post #13 of 18 (7 views)
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Re: candy from a baby... [In reply to]	Can't Post

On Fri, 14 Nov 2008 21:57:56 -0600,
in article <a5ish4p6kpg61bpmnv85a4r1idn7somio6@4ax.com>,
ufc@invalid.net wrote:

>On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 21:30:38 -0800 (PST),
> in article
><f77fa078-99f2-4a5f-ba6e-ed26807ca4e5@b38g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
> Sam the Bam <samthebam1@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>I'm off to Las Vegas Saturday, to drop $20 grand on Brock Lesnar
>>over the Geritol guy... it's almost even money, which boggles my mind.
>>
>>Haven't we seen this scenario umpteen times? Old boxer can't
>>hang up the gloves, out for one last hurrah against the young
>>lion, gonna whup that cub a good lesson, yessiree...
>>
>>Ali vs. Holmes, Holmes vs. Tyson, the list is long.... though
>>perhaps a better comparison is Frazier vs. Foreman, 1972.
>>Frazier the champ, savvy, tough, confident; Foreman young,
>>massive, hungry, fit... Lesnar - Couture: deja vu. Granted,
>>Randy is in much better condition than those other cases
>>(still not fitter than Frazier), but it's still a pipe dream.
>>
>>Lesnar is younger. stronger, bigger, faster... and Couture is
>>giving away 15 YEARS!!! But wait... what about the 'experience'
>>angle? That's crucial, sho nuf... I mean, look how Herring
>>schooled Lesnar... insanity is doing the same thing over and
>>over, expecting different results...
>>
>>How is Methuselah going to win this... standing? He might land
>>a lucky shot, but those are narrow time windows, Hulk can force
>>it to the floor any time.
>>
>>From top? Does anyone see Hulk on his back?
>>
>>Take his back? Maybe, but that's a big back, and a thick neck.
>>
>>Endurance? Indeed, size is a detriment in a long fight, but
>>Methuselah has to survive 5 rounds, and Hulk was a champion
>>wrestler, he knows a bit about training.
>>
>>Sub? Not Geritol's forte, and anyway no one will catch Hulk
>>with a trick. Losing to Mir was probably for the best, a wake
>>up call, now Brock trains daily with jujutsu players, he won't
>>get caught again.
>>
>>All winning scenarios for Methuselah are freakish, that's
>>never smart money... like the L.A. Clippers could win the
>>NBA west, but it's not the smart money...
>>
>>I do feel a bit guilty, snatching lollipops form a child's hand.
>>
>>And in 4 months, we'll witness a test of character, watching
>>Fedor taste defeat...
>>
>>
>>
>>Sam
>
>
>Yeah, you're just oozing with confidence.

No, I mean it. You _really_ are confident. _Really_. You're
not at all insecure. I can tell how confident you are,
because you're going to bet $20K on Lesnar. Why, Couture
should just admit Lesnar can kick his ass, and not even try to
fight. That's just how damned confident you and Lesnar are.

"rollman"
Webmaster
rollinsh@hotmail.com

Nov 15, 2008, 8:30 AM

Post #14 of 18 (5 views)
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Re: candy from a baby... [In reply to]	Can't Post

<ufc@invalid.net> wrote in message
news:jb9th4p8q1q442fm52qignhn9sbkip3mo7@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 14 Nov 2008 21:57:56 -0600,
> in article <a5ish4p6kpg61bpmnv85a4r1idn7somio6@4ax.com>,
> ufc@invalid.net wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 21:30:38 -0800 (PST),
>> in article
>><f77fa078-99f2-4a5f-ba6e-ed26807ca4e5@b38g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
>> Sam the Bam <samthebam1@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>I'm off to Las Vegas Saturday, to drop $20 grand on Brock Lesnar
>>>over the Geritol guy... it's almost even money, which boggles my mind.
>>>
>>>Haven't we seen this scenario umpteen times? Old boxer can't
>>>hang up the gloves, out for one last hurrah against the young
>>>lion, gonna whup that cub a good lesson, yessiree...
>>>
>>>Ali vs. Holmes, Holmes vs. Tyson, the list is long.... though
>>>perhaps a better comparison is Frazier vs. Foreman, 1972.
>>>Frazier the champ, savvy, tough, confident; Foreman young,
>>>massive, hungry, fit... Lesnar - Couture: deja vu. Granted,
>>>Randy is in much better condition than those other cases
>>>(still not fitter than Frazier), but it's still a pipe dream.
>>>
>>>Lesnar is younger. stronger, bigger, faster... and Couture is
>>>giving away 15 YEARS!!! But wait... what about the 'experience'
>>>angle? That's crucial, sho nuf... I mean, look how Herring
>>>schooled Lesnar... insanity is doing the same thing over and
>>>over, expecting different results...
>>>
>>>How is Methuselah going to win this... standing? He might land
>>>a lucky shot, but those are narrow time windows, Hulk can force
>>>it to the floor any time.
>>>
>>>From top? Does anyone see Hulk on his back?
>>>
>>>Take his back? Maybe, but that's a big back, and a thick neck.
>>>
>>>Endurance? Indeed, size is a detriment in a long fight, but
>>>Methuselah has to survive 5 rounds, and Hulk was a champion
>>>wrestler, he knows a bit about training.
>>>
>>>Sub? Not Geritol's forte, and anyway no one will catch Hulk
>>>with a trick. Losing to Mir was probably for the best, a wake
>>>up call, now Brock trains daily with jujutsu players, he won't
>>>get caught again.
>>>
>>>All winning scenarios for Methuselah are freakish, that's
>>>never smart money... like the L.A. Clippers could win the
>>>NBA west, but it's not the smart money...
>>>
>>>I do feel a bit guilty, snatching lollipops form a child's hand.
>>>
>>>And in 4 months, we'll witness a test of character, watching
>>>Fedor taste defeat...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Sam
>>
>>
>>Yeah, you're just oozing with confidence.
>
>
> No, I mean it. You _really_ are confident. _Really_. You're
> not at all insecure. I can tell how confident you are,
> because you're going to bet $20K on Lesnar. Why, Couture
> should just admit Lesnar can kick his ass, and not even try to
> fight. That's just how damned confident you and Lesnar are.

haha whats the matter.. no bites?

Bill Ricardi
Webmaster
billricardi@googlemail.com

Nov 15, 2008, 9:33 AM

Post #15 of 18 (5 views)
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Re: candy from a baby... [In reply to]	Can't Post

On Nov 15, 6:26=A0am, "travis...@aol.cominyrface" <travis...@aol.com>
wrote:
> > This is how he beat the last wrestler he faced. Van Arsdale got caught

> C'mon, you're comparing Van Arsdale to Lesnar?

No. I was just stating historical fact. Then you went on for 5
paragraphs and I took a nap.

ufc@invalid.net
Webmaster
ufc@invalid.net

Nov 15, 2008, 11:11 AM

Post #16 of 18 (5 views)
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Re: candy from a baby... [In reply to]	Can't Post

On Sat, 15 Nov 2008 23:30:46 +1000,
in article <491ecf0c$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>,
"rollman" <rollinsh@hotmail.com> wrote:

>
><ufc@invalid.net> wrote in message
>news:jb9th4p8q1q442fm52qignhn9sbkip3mo7@4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 14 Nov 2008 21:57:56 -0600,
>> in article <a5ish4p6kpg61bpmnv85a4r1idn7somio6@4ax.com>,
>> ufc@invalid.net wrote:
>>
>>>On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 21:30:38 -0800 (PST),
>>> in article
>>><f77fa078-99f2-4a5f-ba6e-ed26807ca4e5@b38g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
>>> Sam the Bam <samthebam1@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>I'm off to Las Vegas Saturday, to drop $20 grand on Brock Lesnar
>>>>over the Geritol guy... it's almost even money, which boggles my mind.
>>>>
>>>>Haven't we seen this scenario umpteen times? Old boxer can't
>>>>hang up the gloves, out for one last hurrah against the young
>>>>lion, gonna whup that cub a good lesson, yessiree...
>>>>
>>>>Ali vs. Holmes, Holmes vs. Tyson, the list is long.... though
>>>>perhaps a better comparison is Frazier vs. Foreman, 1972.
>>>>Frazier the champ, savvy, tough, confident; Foreman young,
>>>>massive, hungry, fit... Lesnar - Couture: deja vu. Granted,
>>>>Randy is in much better condition than those other cases
>>>>(still not fitter than Frazier), but it's still a pipe dream.
>>>>
>>>>Lesnar is younger. stronger, bigger, faster... and Couture is
>>>>giving away 15 YEARS!!! But wait... what about the 'experience'
>>>>angle? That's crucial, sho nuf... I mean, look how Herring
>>>>schooled Lesnar... insanity is doing the same thing over and
>>>>over, expecting different results...
>>>>
>>>>How is Methuselah going to win this... standing? He might land
>>>>a lucky shot, but those are narrow time windows, Hulk can force
>>>>it to the floor any time.
>>>>
>>>>From top? Does anyone see Hulk on his back?
>>>>
>>>>Take his back? Maybe, but that's a big back, and a thick neck.
>>>>
>>>>Endurance? Indeed, size is a detriment in a long fight, but
>>>>Methuselah has to survive 5 rounds, and Hulk was a champion
>>>>wrestler, he knows a bit about training.
>>>>
>>>>Sub? Not Geritol's forte, and anyway no one will catch Hulk
>>>>with a trick. Losing to Mir was probably for the best, a wake
>>>>up call, now Brock trains daily with jujutsu players, he won't
>>>>get caught again.
>>>>
>>>>All winning scenarios for Methuselah are freakish, that's
>>>>never smart money... like the L.A. Clippers could win the
>>>>NBA west, but it's not the smart money...
>>>>
>>>>I do feel a bit guilty, snatching lollipops form a child's hand.
>>>>
>>>>And in 4 months, we'll witness a test of character, watching
>>>>Fedor taste defeat...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Sam
>>>
>>>
>>>Yeah, you're just oozing with confidence.
>>
>>
>> No, I mean it. You _really_ are confident. _Really_. You're
>> not at all insecure. I can tell how confident you are,
>> because you're going to bet $20K on Lesnar. Why, Couture
>> should just admit Lesnar can kick his ass, and not even try to
>> fight. That's just how damned confident you and Lesnar are.
>
>haha whats the matter.. no bites?
>
>

Your comment here reminds me of the birthday card that reads,
"I was going to put $50.00 in your card, but I had already
sealed the envelope."

Gary Collard
Webmaster
SarcastiPundit.73825217@bloglines.com

Nov 15, 2008, 12:47 PM

Post #17 of 18 (5 views)
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Re: candy from a baby... [In reply to]	Can't Post

I'd be with you if Lesnar was more experienced, but the greenness mitigates
his advantages a good deal. I lean to him, but close to an even line seems
pretty fair to me.

Sam the Bam wrote:
> I'm off to Las Vegas Saturday, to drop $20 grand on Brock Lesnar
> over the Geritol guy... it's almost even money, which boggles my mind.
>
> Haven't we seen this scenario umpteen times? Old boxer can't
> hang up the gloves, out for one last hurrah against the young
> lion, gonna whup that cub a good lesson, yessiree...
>
> Ali vs. Holmes, Holmes vs. Tyson, the list is long.... though
> perhaps a better comparison is Frazier vs. Foreman, 1972.
> Frazier the champ, savvy, tough, confident; Foreman young,
> massive, hungry, fit... Lesnar - Couture: deja vu. Granted,
> Randy is in much better condition than those other cases
> (still not fitter than Frazier), but it's still a pipe dream.
>
> Lesnar is younger. stronger, bigger, faster... and Couture is
> giving away 15 YEARS!!! But wait... what about the 'experience'
> angle? That's crucial, sho nuf... I mean, look how Herring
> schooled Lesnar... insanity is doing the same thing over and
> over, expecting different results...
>
> How is Methuselah going to win this... standing? He might land
> a lucky shot, but those are narrow time windows, Hulk can force
> it to the floor any time.
>
> From top? Does anyone see Hulk on his back?
>
> Take his back? Maybe, but that's a big back, and a thick neck.
>
> Endurance? Indeed, size is a detriment in a long fight, but
> Methuselah has to survive 5 rounds, and Hulk was a champion
> wrestler, he knows a bit about training.
>
> Sub? Not Geritol's forte, and anyway no one will catch Hulk
> with a trick. Losing to Mir was probably for the best, a wake
> up call, now Brock trains daily with jujutsu players, he won't
> get caught again.
>
> All winning scenarios for Methuselah are freakish, that's
> never smart money... like the L.A. Clippers could win the
> NBA west, but it's not the smart money...
>
> I do feel a bit guilty, snatching lollipops form a child's hand.
>
> And in 4 months, we'll witness a test of character, watching
> Fedor taste defeat...
>
>
>
> Sam

--
Gary Collard
SABR-L Moderator
gmcollard at yahoo dot com
http://sarcastipundit.blogspot.com/

"It seems like the ultimate modern global economy - First we
outsourced our jobs, and then savings, and now we outsource the
voting and campaign fund raising."
-- Mark Steyn on the Obama campaign

shuurai11@gmail.com
Webmaster
shuurai11@gmail.com

Nov 23, 2008, 10:05 PM

Post #18 of 18 (4 views)
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Re: candy from a baby... [In reply to]	Can't Post

> > Nevermind about Fedor. =A0Gichoke is building the perfect beast inside
> > his genetics lab within a volcano off the South American coast.
>
> Already done, i got a teenager that faced a guy 2-0 in the ufc at a
> higher weight and my kid choked him unconcious in the 1st.
> And there will be more where that came from.

He's probably a robot.

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